John Ziegler: Psycho
Nate Silver does a good job keeping his cool while allowing John Ziegler to disclose his (fairly close-to-the-surface) psychosis. I mean wow. What a nut.
I really wish that the sane folk across the aisle would start making more noise about these crackpots. It'd be comforting to know/discover that there's a sane right that doesn't approve of/buy into this garbage. I know there are sane conservatives out there; it's too bad they're being so badly overshadowed by the lunatics.
Nate Silver does a good job keeping his cool while allowing John Ziegler to disclose his (fairly close-to-the-surface) psychosis. I mean wow. What a nut.
I really wish that the sane folk across the aisle would start making more noise about these crackpots. It'd be comforting to know/discover that there's a sane right that doesn't approve of/buy into this garbage. I know there are sane conservatives out there; it's too bad they're being so badly overshadowed by the lunatics.
posted by Winston Smith at
3:08 PM
20 Comments:
Keep attacking the truth when you don't like it. This is getting predictable. READTHIS-Released: November 18, 2008
Zogby Statement on Ziegler poll
"We stand by the results our survey work on behalf of John Ziegler, as we stand by all of our work. We reject the notion that this was a push poll because it very simply wasn't. It was a legitimate effort to test the knowledge of voters who cast ballots for Barack Obama in the Nov. 4 election. Push polls are a malicious effort to sway public opinion one way or the other, while message and knowledge testing is quite another effort of public opinion research that is legitimate inquiry and has value in the public square. In this case, the respondents were given a full range of responses and were not pressured or influenced to respond in one way or another. This poll was not designed to hurt anyone, which is obvious as it was conducted after the election. The client is free to draw his own conclusions about the research, as are bloggers and other members of society. But Zogby International is a neutral party in this matter. We were hired to test public opinion on a particular subject and with no ax to grind, that's exactly what we did. We don't have to agree or disagree with the questions, we simply ask them and provide the client with a fair and accurate set of data reflecting public opinion." - John Zogby
Anonymous, I believe that you don't understand (or aren't addressing, in any case) Nate Silver's biggest objection, which is that the questions themselves are slanted.
Zogby said, "We don't have to agree or disagree with the questions, we simply ask them and provide the client with a fair and accurate set of data reflecting public opinion."
As far as that goes, that's reasonable, but what Zogby is doing, really, is getting accurate answers to inaccurate questions.
Put another way, if I contracted with Zogby, and had them call 10,000 households with the question, "What does 2 + 2 equal? A) Five, B) Bananna, C) Tuesday, or D) Springfield," I'm sure that Zogby would be able to get me the exact count on how many households answered which way ... but that wouldn't make the question or the answers I provided any more worthwhile.
That's the objection here.
---Myca
Moreover (and this is something that's frustrated me too), I find it hilarious that Winston posts saying, in effect, "how is it that nobody on the right can see that this guy is crazy," and your response is, "He's not crazy! He's right!"
It's just ... look. Y'all lost. Y'all lost badly. I believe that part of why you lost is stuff like this. The loony, far-right, California-is-not-the-real-America, Obama-is-secretly-Muslim stuff.
It is in everyone's best interest for the Republican party and the right in general to come out of the cold and start acting sane again. It's in your best interest because it means that they'll start winning elections again. It's in my best interest because I believe strongly in the concept of a loyal opposition. America should not ever be a one-party state ... not my party and not yours.
---Myca
Are you trying to um, reason with Anonymous, Myca? How exactly were you expecting that to work?
And...does this Anonymous...remind you of anyone? Or is it just me?
Are you trying to um, reason with Anonymous, Myca? How exactly were you expecting that to work?
*grin* Yeah. I drink too much, eat bacon, and drive fast too.
Frankly, I'm a mess of bad habits.
---Myca
Don't you people read the links before you attack? They don't even know the questions yet and there attacking him. What questions were bad? Tell me before you attack him anyway. Reading comprehension.
READTHIS-NS: Were the interviews conducted by telephone or online?
JZ: How can you ask a question like that and pretend that you have any clue what you're writing about! That's unbelievable that someone could write what you did! That is unbelievable that you wouldn't know that it's a telephone or an online poll and that you went on my summaries of the questions before the questions were even released!
NS: We’ve heard reports from our readers that very similar questions had been asked in an online format. There was no online component at all?
JZ: That is correct, which you would have known if you had looked at the information. Before you called this a push poll -- you don't seem to know the definition of a push poll. How do you have this website?
Haha. JZ nailed him. I like the links you make, Winston Smith. But they never say what you say they do. maybe you should print what they say instead of your version of it.
LOOOOL
Oh, yeah, man, "JZ" sure did nail him! Oh, snap!
Man, you ought to stay around just for comic relief. It's like having a court jester.
That is correct, which you would have known if you had looked at the information.
Change 'looked' to 'believed' and you'd have a true statement. Follow-ups that question bullshit aren't evidence of poor reading comprehension. They show skepticism, a virtue not much found in wingnut true believers - except where inconvenient facts are concerned. Those can be dismissed out of hand as the product of the world's obvious liberal bias.
Boy you'll discuss anything except what it is. except where inconvenient facts are concerned. Those can be dismissed out of hand. By wingnut true believers. NS didn't know what he was talking about, it was so obvious. Attack. Attack. I drink too much, eat bacon, and drive fast too. But at least I read the posts and the links. I don't attack Obama I just said people elected the mystery man and this proves it. The slogan man.
Oh my God. READTHIS-* 57 percent thought the Republicans still control Congress. Note that this is worse than a random result, since there are only two possible answers.
Go ahead, Mr. reason or Mr. Myca. Why is that a bad question. Follow-ups that question bullshit aren't evidence of poor reading comprehension. I'm the court jester, fine, thank you for calling me a clown. But all you can do is call people stupid and stones and clowns and thats it because any clown can do that. Look in the mirror.
Once again, Anonymous, unless we know what percentage of the general population believes the same thing, by subjecting them to the same poll with the same questions, this doesn't really indicate much.
If, for example, 70% of the general population, when asked the same question, got 'who controls congress' wrong, then we'd know that Obama supporters did significantly better.
If, on the other hand, 30% of the general population, when asked the same question, got 'who controls congress' wrong, then we'd know that Obama supporters did significantly worse.
This is why Nate Silver focused a few times on trying to figure out why the study just polled Obama supporters. Without some kind of baseline to measure against, the numbers are difficult to find meaning in.
---Myca
And yes, I've read the post, the links, and the actual questions asked in the poll.
Keep pushing your shit, buddy. The American People aren't buying any more, and that's your problem, not mine.
Your first comment was good, Myca. The second one was attack on me. Learn to tell the difference. Truth is truth and I don't deserve that, shoot the messenger.I said once that I hope Obama isnt as stupid as the people who voted for him. I wish I didn't say that. Some people like Obama and read his website and that's Ok. All I ever said really was that people voted for the mystery man. Thats true. Don't be a stone. READTHIS-* 57 percent thought the Republicans still control Congress. Note that this is worse than a random result, since there are only two possible answers. Stop hassleing me. All this site is is attack. Most people who voted for Obama didn't even know who controls Congress. And Winston Smith calls me a clown thank you very much. Who is the clown?
And also thank you very much for cursing at me Myca. I don't have to say what you say is shit. I prove it. next time you have something to say remember that, buddy.
If you don't wish to be attacked, you should not claim that people who disagree with you are not properly informed. We actually are.
I'm looking at a copy of the poll with the actual numbers and the actual questions right now, and yet I still disagree.
When you say, "57 percent thought the Republicans still control Congress," for example, that's untrue. You'd know that if you'd done as you've demanded of everyone here, and "read the posts and the links."
From the actual poll:
When asked, "Before this past election, which political party controlled both houses of congress?"
36.5% Answered Republican
42.6% Answered Democrat
12.9% Answered Neither
8% Answered Not Sure
Now, as I've explained before, without measuring these numbers against the general population, they don't mean much, but there it is.
---Myca
Ok, that's fair, I didn't read the poll either. I just saw Winston Smith and NS attacking it and they didn't read it either. And I didn't say that McCain people were more properly informed because nobody knows. And don't curse at me because I didn't curse at you but otherwise your right except we elected the mystery man and that's the fact.
See what I get for reading some body elses version? My fault. Just like Winston Smith. 42.6% Answered Democrat is nothing to brag about. I'll know better next time will you?
Hey, first of all, it's good to see that you regret saying that you hope that "Obama isn't as stupid as the people who voted for him." Progress!
Second...good on you for admitting that this was a waste of time, and you didn't read it properly.
Now, since I really do think it's admirable when people admit that they're wrong, I had no intention of kicking you for this...however, surely you must realize that much of the criticism you've gotten has been a result of these two things--and, again, even you admit you were wrong in both cases.
Finally, and as a general point: I've got to say, I just can't take any of these trivial anti-Obama points seriously when we've still got perhaps the worst President in history in office. The very fact that you would spend so much time and energy on such small-caliber anti-Obama issues when a gang of large-caliber criminals is in office indicates a certain lack of perspective.
Still, I congratulate you on admitting error. It really is an admirable thing to do.
Wow. I hope Nate took a shower after that one...
No Winston Smith I was wrong about one thing and olny by some per cent. Nate didn't know what he was talking about at all. Don't take advantage and make this more than it is. Anyway it looks like we elected Hilary anyway with all the Clinton people Omama is appointing including her.
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