Friday, November 11, 2005

Steven Hadley's Argument Re: Iraq

In today's WaPo, Steven Hadley lays out the bare bones of what I consider the administration's strongest arguments against the claim that it acted irresponsibly and deceptively in building its public case for invading Iraq. We do only get the bare bones here, so keep that in mind. The case goes roughly like this, quoting the Post:


The administration's judgment on the threat posed by Iraq, he said, "represented the collective view of the intelligence community" and was "shared by Republicans and Democrats alike."

"Some of the critics today," Hadley added, "believed themselves in 2002 that Saddam Hussein had weapons of mass destruction, they stated that belief, and they voted to authorize the use of force in Iraq because they believed Saddam Hussein posed a dangerous threat to the American people. For those critics to ignore their own past statements exposes the hollowness of their current attacks."

These are important points, some of which Tom has been making in comments. To summarize:

1. The administration's judgment on the threat posed by Iraq represented the consensus of the Intelligence community

2. Republicans and Democrats shared this view

3. Many of those now critical of the administration's pre-war actions themselves believed in 2002 that Saddam had "WMD"s, and they said as much

4. These current critics authorized the invasion because they believed that Saddam posed a dangerous threat to the American people.

5. "For those critics to ignore their own past statements exposes the hollowness of their current attacks."

Let me make it clear that I agree with the spirit of Senator Kennedy's response, quoted in the story (though I'm not the biggest fan of Senator Kennedy). So, as you probably know, I begin from a position of skepticism with regard to the points above, but they are strong enough to warrant consideration. Taking them individually:

1'.
(a) I'm not sure about/convinced of this. At one time I was fairly well-versed in the public version of the intelligence community's consensus--which, of course, may not have represented the actual consensus. If I'm remembering correctly, however, there was disagreement about the actual threat posed by Iraq. Wasn't it the case that a significant element of said community thought that Saddam was only a direct threat to the U.S. if we invaded? At least it is reasonably clear that the administration filtered opinions from the intelligence community in a prejudicial way. Consider, just as one example, the infamous "sixteen words." The President claimed that we had "learned" from the Brits that Saddam was trying to get uranium--but the consensus of our own intelligence community was that this was false and the Brits were wrong. So we hadn't learned it from them at all; the most charitable thing you could say here is that we had heard it from them. It certainly didn't represent the consensus of our intelligence community (which is what we are being asked to believe); in fact it did not even represent the consensus of the intelligence community if it is broadly--and sneakily--taken to include the Brits. Even if we include them, it just means there there was no consensus, but, rather dissensus.

[Forgot: There's an ambiguity here about which judgments we're talking about, the overall judgment about the dangerousness of Iraq, the overall judgment about whether he had "WMD"s, or the particular judgments the administration discussed. It's the latter that are important here, and Hadley just seems wrong about this. The claims about UAVs and the aluminum tubes did not, in fact, represent the consensus of the intelligence community.]

Most of the above, however, hinges on matters of public record. I'm going to tentatively conclude that this claim is likely to be false, but am way open to correction on the point.

(b) More importantly: Hadley's point is mostly irrelevant. I think the administration is either confused about the point at issue or bullshitting us again. The question at issue is whether the administration deceived us/used evidence in an epistemically and/or morally irresponsible manner. Even if their assertions were, in fact, in accordance with the consensus of the IC, this doesn't mean that they didn't lie about the evidence. In fact, that is the very charge at issue: that they exaggerated the evidence for widely-held conclusions and exaggerated the costliness of inaction.

2'.
Some Republicans and Democrats shared this view and some did not. I am under the impression that most sort of shared the view, so I'm tempted to give Hadley this point. Again, empirical question, and the answer can be found. However note that many Republicans and Democrats shared the view in part because they were convinced by the administration's exaggerated evidence and vehemence. I'm pretty much immune to argument by insistence, but even I began to think I must be missing something after being brow-beaten by the administration in the months leading up the invasion. I kept thinking gee, these guys are so sure about it...they must know something they're not saying, or I must be thinking about this wrong. Consequently, I tentatively judge that this point carries little weight.

3'.
True. I thought he had them, too. But irrelevant. Again: the question is whether the administration lied, deceived, and/or used evidence in an epistemically and/or morally irresponsible manner. Again: I believed that Saddam had chemical weapons, but I opposed the war b/c it came to seem clear to me that the administration was lying. You can lie even though your conclusion is true--it's one of the commonest things in the world. Making up or exaggerating evidence is deception even if your conclusion is true, even if you believe it to be so and even if the target of your deception believes it to be so.

4'.
Not clearly true. Many of the current critics authorized the war, but it isn't clear why. Personally, I think it was a combination of things. Again, in part this was a result of the administration distorting the evidence, so it doesn't really count. Furthermore, many of those who authorized the war did so because they knew that the political costs of not doing so and being wrong would be disasterous. In short, they were weenies. You can attack another country and be wrong and the American electorate will forgive you. But if you don't attack and you're wrong, you are history. Dems who voted to authorize the use of force did so in part because of legitimate evidence, in part because of administrative deception, in part because they were forced to do so to maintain credibility with the already-deceived electorate, and in part because they are weenies. So Hadley is mostly wrong here.

5'.
False. If the critics of the war had looked objectively at the same evidence that the administration looked at and made the same judgment that the administration did, then this would be fairly good evidence that their attacks are unwarranted. But given what we've already noted above, we can see that this isn't so. The administration distorted the evidence, whipped up fear in the populace, and basically created an environment in which opponents of invasion were forced to choose between (a) reluctantly voting for an invasion they weren't sure about and (b) losing all political credibility, thus dramatically increasing the power of an administration and a party that they had good reason to distrust. Given those conditions, current war critics are, I believe, permitted to judge now, in a cool hour, that their previous judgments were wrong, and wrong in part because of administrative deception.

I hope that the above arguments aren't too one-sided, but that's the way I see it, in brief. There's more to be said here, but we've all got other things to do.

24 Comments:

Anonymous Anonymous said...

I think you understate your contentions to 2) and 3). It is not simply that the executive branch shares some responsibility for the widespread belief in Saddam's danger that they claim (and which incidentally was not so widespread as they claim, as a browse through the archived media from the period leading up to the war will reveal. Blix is a good keyword to start with). It is that they bear nearly exclusive responsibility. The Legislative branch does not, to my knowledge, have an intelligence arm. They have oversight, but the administration and the CIA under it are the sole trough from which Congress and the press get their information. So if the nation believed something that was untrue, it doesn't mitigate the administration's sin, it exacerbates it.

1:23 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Winston,

My main problems are with two things.

One, which Hadley didn't address, was the aggregation of CW and BW with nukes to create the sales catchphrase 'WMD'. Anyone who's intellectually honest would admit that the big concern was the oft-conjured "mushroom cloud". In truth, the evidence for nukes was extremely weak, and the administraion knew about the weakness, and did everything they could to hide and play down the problems with that intelligence.

My second big problem is with number 4 above. Many of those who voted for the IWR voted TO HOLD SADDAM ACCOUNTABLE FOR VERIFICATION. That's even how it was SOLD at the time. Bush said the vote was a vote to keep the peace. You can google it if you want to.

Moreover, there is prima facie evidence that it did work in that regard. It was after the resolution was passed that Iraq allowed inspectors back in. I don't know if Saddam would have allowed it without the resolution, but I know which way I'd bet.

And after sending inspectors to the specific sites where we *knew* the weapons were, they could find nothing, not even trace amounts in air and soil of evidence of these weapons. Yeah, maybe they found some 'weapons of mass destruction related activities', but that's a far cry from the stockpiles of Armageddon-inducing weapons that 'there was no doubt' he had.

Invading while that was still going on, as well as the Downing Street Memo and other anectdotes about summer '02 conversations with Condoleeza Rice, lay bare the fundamental dishonesty of the administration's present characterization of Congressional authorization.

2:21 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

...that's a far cry...

Not so fast, LC:

DIANE SAWYER: But stated as a hard fact, that there were weapons of mass destruction as opposed to the possibility that he could move to acquire those weapons still —

PRESIDENT BUSH: So what's the difference?

(from page 2 of Diane Sawyer's Dec. 16, 2003 interview with Bush on ABC)

3:35 PM  
Blogger Tom Van Dyke said...

Since I'm a named conspirator, let me just say that my argument has been that there was a constellation of factors that necessitated the removal of Saddam. He did not just drop in from outer space---he had a decades-long history of butchery, deceit, and a fascination for WMDs.

To expect that he had changed from hyena to puppy dog between January and March of 2003 was dangerously wishful thinking.

I found presidential candidate John Edwards' (who still had criticism of the Bush Administration's execution of the war) position on the totality of the Saddam question sound on this particular point (10/15/03):

"EDWARDS: I think we have to get to the bottom of this. I think there’s clear inconsistency between what’s been found in Iraq and what we were told.

And as you know, I serve on the Senate Intelligence Committee. So it wasn’t just the Bush administration. I sat in meeting after meeting after meeting where we were told about the presence of weapons of mass destruction. There is clearly a disconnect between what we were told and what, in fact, we found there.

MATTHEWS: If you knew last October when you had to cast an aye or nay vote for this war, that we would be unable to find weapons of mass destruction after all these months there, would you still have supported the war?

EDWARDS: It wouldn’t change my views. I said before, I think that the threat here was a unique threat. It was Saddam Hussein, the potential for Saddam getting nuclear weapons, given his history and the fact that he started the war before.

MATTHEWS: Do you feel now that you have evidence in your hands that he was on the verge of getting nuclear weapons?

EDWARDS: No, I wouldn’t go that far.

MATTHES: What would you say?

EDWARDS: What I would say is there’s a decade long pattern of an effort to get nuclear capability, from the former Soviet Union, trying to get access to scientists...

MATTHEWS: What about Africa?

EDWARDS: ... trying to get-No. I don’t think so. At least not from the evidence.

MATTHEWS: Were you misled by the president in the State of the Union address on the argument that Saddam Hussein was trying get uranium from Niger?

EDWARDS: I guess the answer to that is no.

I did not put a lot of stock in that.

MATTHEWS: But you didn’t believe-But you weren’t misled?

EDWARDS: No, I was not misled because I didn’t put a lot of stock in to it begin with.

As I said before, I think what happened here is, for over a decade, there is strong, powerful evidence, which I still believe is true, that Saddam Hussein had been trying to get nuclear capability. Either from North Korea, from the former Soviet Union, getting access to scientists, trying to get access to raw fissile material. I don’t-that I don’t have any question about."


It was pay me now or pay me later.

3:44 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

You still haven't presented evidence that war war inevitable, except as decided by George W. Bush.

Was Saddam successful all of those years trying to get nukes? You know, all those years when AQ Khan was peddling his wares all over the globe? Was Saddam even CLOSE to having a nuke? The answers are, of course, no.

I have no idea if there would have ultimately been a war. And Saddam could never have gotten out from under the sanctions without our UNSC approval. What I do know, however, is that if it had been shown to be TRULY necessary, there would have been far greater worldwide support for it. GW I showed that when the world is confronted with a legitimate need to attack, it will sign on. As in, thousands of ARAB troops joining the coalition.

Any number of things could have happened which would have avoided war. Unlike you, I don't claim to know what would happen in the future. And for that matter, neither should John Edwards.

And all that is leaving aside the overall damage done to our efforts to confront Al Qaeda, both directly by moving resources away from capturing Bin Laden and Al Zawahiri, and indirectly by giving a recruiting assist to Bin Laden that he had previously experienced only in his wet dreams.

4:34 PM  
Blogger matthew christman said...

One way or another, inspectors were on the ground in Iraq, inspecting. Bush pulled them out to start bombing without any substantive provocation (then, after the war started, he went around claiming that Saddam had refused inspectors entry to Iraq). Even assuming that the Iraqi gov't was jerking the inspectors around, there's no justification for ending inspections unless there is a genuine threat of imminent use of WMD: otherwise, time is on the side of inspectors.

4:38 PM  
Blogger Tom Van Dyke said...

I was addressing Winston's post specifically on intelligence.

No one knows anything, Mr. Carroll. But to ignore Saddam's history as if history starts over each morning is foolish.

You defend the status quo ante. I find it morally unacceptable. The American media, either out of patriotism or defense of the Clinton administration, has missed this part of the story.

5:11 PM  
Blogger Tom Van Dyke said...

Mr. Carroll, I apologize for lazily grabbing a quick link from the lefty fever swamp, which is the lingua franca hereabouts, so I thought it would be OK.

A more accepted number for the sanctions-related deaths is probably 20-30,000 innocents. All in all, about the cost of the war itself, including bad guysif one ignores the Lancet's outlier (outliar) of 100,000.

Please excuse my weariness in reposting links from before you arrived on the scene. I have also mentioned that part of the "rush" to war was that the US/UK diplomatic position was eroding because France was bopping around the world rounding up opposition from little crap countries, that Saddam permitted the 2nd round of inspectors in only because we had a full invasion force on his border (a force that was extremely vulnerable to attack bottled up in tiny Kuwait), and that the US was about to lose the key asset of the Prince Faisal Air Base in Saudi (a Star-Wars-level tech masterpiece that was used to direct the air campaign).

6:12 PM  
Blogger Tom Van Dyke said...

Yes, Mr. Azael, I have heard that, but have been unable to track it down definitively.

It certainly would be key. But since the US and UK demanded Saddam's abdication, he could easily have made known in the world media that he would. Al-Jazeera would have taken his call, I am sure.

6:15 PM  
Blogger Tom Van Dyke said...

Yes, I do google, thank you, sir. I had seen this story and considered it undefinitive.

Do you read your own links?

"Even if the issue had been pursued at the summit, it was not clear whether Saddam Hussein would have followed through with any agreement. In the same documentary, Egyptian President Hosni Mubarak describes the Iraqi leader as "a difficult man; no one knew what he was thinking."


U.S. State Department officials told CNN they knew about the proposal but did not consider it seriously because they knew the Arab League was not doing so."

6:27 PM  
Blogger Tom Van Dyke said...

This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

7:12 PM  
Blogger Tom Van Dyke said...

No use in continuing.

7:14 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Aside from the fact that most of the numbers for estimated deaths from sanctions are for before the implementation of the oil-for-food program in 1997, and that Carol Bellamy herself said that people incorrectly attributed too many of those deaths to sanctions alone, why should I believe that we should engage in otherwise admirable humanitarian relief efforts regardless of the cost?

I recommend a close reading of this book:

http://www.nplusonemag.com/walzer.html

8:18 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Azael,

Not that I don't agree with you on the larger points, but I would posit that it's possible other people with good intentions saw potential benefits to the war, especially and including the democratization of Iraq and the relief of the suffering of the Iraqi people.

In a practical sense, you can't decouple those idealistic hopes from a couple of sticking points though:

1. The Bush administration's lack of true concern for human rights.

2. The immense other negative effects the war would create, which we've been through many times.

3. There was no certainty that Iraqis would be better off JUST BECAUSE Saddam was gone.

I realize that this is kind of a deconstructionist take on the war, but I agree with Winston that it is possible to imagine one having good intentions with a war to remove Sadddam. It's just that I think, considering all the other problems and more pressing concerns (both strategic and humanitarian), this was a fool's errand.

So while I can, to the limited extent I know him, attribute noble motives to someone like Tom for wanting the war, I can't in good faith say the same thing about the Bush administration. Especially given the utter dishonesty it employed to market the war and use it as a political tool.

9:55 PM  
Blogger Tom Van Dyke said...

Please, Mr. Carroll. If I started recommending books to you, you'd sue your educators for malpractice.

;-)

9:56 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Seriously Tom, I thought that it was a great book.

Not just trying to score a rhetorical point.

9:57 PM  
Blogger Tom Van Dyke said...

Thank you for your last comment, Mr. Carroll, and what I see as an attempt to be fair.

I understand your distrust of the Bushies, although not your suggestion of dishonorable motives. I do not attribute dishonorable motives to anyone who has served or stood as a major-party candidate for president (except for Aaron Burr).

But in any case, I find trusting that Saddam would deviate from what was clearly an evil (a word I do not use loosely) course of behavior as the worse bet. Preponderance of evidence, and all that. I have not found a single mitigating piece of evidence that would entitle him to the benefit of the least shred of doubt.

Even Qaddafi earned some with his non-response to his wrist-slapping. I would have opposed invading him, even if the WMD situation were identical.

10:13 PM  
Blogger Tom Van Dyke said...

OK, LC, I'm looking at it, and it seems worthy at first glance. Sorry for the quick dismissal, but my time was already wasted once today in tracking down links.

My apology for lumping you in with that.

10:16 PM  
Blogger Tom Van Dyke said...

OK, I read it, LC. I would thoroughly enjoy a colloquy on it, especially if WS would agree to serve as interlocutor, if not participant.

Just today, I had resolved to deepen my surface understanding of Rousseau, who seems to be the underpinning of the modern Western mind far more than Plato, Locke, or Jesus.

It would be fun.

10:49 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"But in any case, I find trusting that Saddam would deviate from what was clearly an evil (a word I do not use loosely) course of behavior as the worse bet."

I think is the essence of my disagreement with you, Tom. My personal opinion is that this constitutes a false dichotomy: war or leave Saddam completely unfettered and rely on trusting him. My best friend was stationed at Incirlik Air Force Base in Turkey for four years. He said hundreds of sorties a day were flown over the no-fly zones and the region was one of the most satellite-scrutinzed in the world; the Iraqis couldn't make a move without us knowing about it.

Nobody said we shouldn't remain vigilant and stay up Saddam's ass, so to speak. But the consequences of war, both foreseen and unforeseen, make it only an absolute last resort, IMO.

11:27 PM  
Blogger Winston Smith said...

Holy crap!

stop paying attention around here for half a day and you suddenly discover a 25-comment thread...

will catch up soon.

10:39 AM  
Blogger Tom Van Dyke said...

And my view is that what was false was the hope the Saddam would live in peace, or that he could be effectively be "contained" any longer once France had turned into his diplomatic protector.


But at least we have arrived at the core issues together. It proves that good faith discussion can be achieved on the internet, despite the many obstacles.

Thank you.

2:11 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Despite the fact that I don't think France was capable of being his "diplomatic protector", you're welcome.

2:21 PM  
Blogger Winston Smith said...

Despite the fact that you guys are still throwing elbows at each other, get a room.

2:31 PM  

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