tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5264937.post5797788942548893938..comments2024-03-26T12:23:29.784-04:00Comments on Philosoraptor: Winston Smithhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/08780746334199630779noreply@blogger.comBlogger10125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5264937.post-70943841664480195952008-08-04T12:35:00.000-04:002008-08-04T12:35:00.000-04:00But isn't it possible to think that people get wha...But isn't it possible to think that people get what they deserve by virtue of the fact that they've committed an atrocious crime that impacts their lives irrevocably? Punishment, to me, seems like needless and excessive consequence. Needless because it produces nothing good (that is, the state of the world after the punishment has been administered, barring other simultaneous changes, is no The Mystichttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00813641115915460692noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5264937.post-35183592255488830572008-07-23T20:38:00.000-04:002008-07-23T20:38:00.000-04:00But administering justice isn't only about generat...But administering justice isn't only about generating positive results. It's at least sometimes about giving people what they deserve. Sometimes people deserve what you might identify as positive things, sometimes negative. <BR/><BR/>Now, presumably you don't deny that people sometimes deserve things that are good for them--one might, for example, deserve some money, or a Nobel prize, or the Winston Smithhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08780746334199630779noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5264937.post-87413869871132588592008-07-23T19:47:00.000-04:002008-07-23T19:47:00.000-04:001. I definitely don't think it's too bad. I don'...1. I definitely don't think it's too bad. I don't know how bad his punishment should be, really, so I can't tell if it's not bad enough, but I do think that the death penalty is not that bad at all. It's worse than living a free, happy life, of course, but way better than living a life in a cage if you ask me. I don't really know why it's chosen as a punishment at all, to tell you the truth.The Mystichttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00813641115915460692noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5264937.post-68666405682091536402008-07-23T18:05:00.000-04:002008-07-23T18:05:00.000-04:001. So, hold on, is death too bad, or not bad enoug...1. So, hold on, is death too bad, or not bad enough?<BR/><BR/>2. What, exactly, could Karadzic do that would yield a "positive balance" when weighed against 100,000+ deaths? Not to mention uncounted women being gang raped to death, or to the point of insanity. Or both.<BR/><BR/>3. I agree with you that it isn't clear why death is the appropriate punishment. But it seems to me that whenever we Winston Smithhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08780746334199630779noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5264937.post-31791966114628508652008-07-23T13:49:00.000-04:002008-07-23T13:49:00.000-04:00Yeah, I don't think we should maximize his sufferi...Yeah, I don't think we should maximize his suffering either. However, might I ask why you arrived at death as the punishment of which he is most deserving? Seems like it's not a very harsh one to me, honestly.<BR/><BR/>Also, I think my biggest problem with the death penalty is that it seems like death does nothing for us and nothing for the person to whom it is being applied. It doesn't reallyThe Mystichttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00813641115915460692noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5264937.post-54512026787225486672008-07-22T17:19:00.000-04:002008-07-22T17:19:00.000-04:00A--Sorry...what I wrote was quite confused, in jus...A--<BR/>Sorry...what I wrote was quite confused, in just the way you identify. What I meant when I said that I was against it in practice in the U.S., as the system is now. There could be a system in which it was justified in practice. In the case of RK, there are no relevant doubts about the crimes, so no grounds for being against it in practice.<BR/><BR/>So, to be completely clear, I'm for it Winston Smithhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08780746334199630779noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5264937.post-73706160209203714152008-07-22T13:34:00.000-04:002008-07-22T13:34:00.000-04:00Well, I disagree with the death penalty 'cause I t...Well, I disagree with the death penalty 'cause I think it's pointless. One reason for that is that I just don't see how it's that big of a punishment when compared to the alternatives. If I faced a decision between life rotting away in a maximum security prison and death, I'd happily choose the latter. Seems to me that if you want to punish someone, you'd lock them away in a cell for the rest The Mystichttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00813641115915460692noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5264937.post-81618483861069431522008-07-22T13:23:00.000-04:002008-07-22T13:23:00.000-04:00Winston,Given that you are for the DP in principle...Winston,<BR/><BR/>Given that you are for the DP in principle, and against it in practice, is your position on RK that he deserves in principle to be executed, but we ought - for practical reasons - treat him more lightly than he deserves? Most of the time, when someone says that X deserves Y, they mean we ought to give it to them, but then your principle/practical distinction collapses.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5264937.post-6463920920611209022008-07-22T13:17:00.000-04:002008-07-22T13:17:00.000-04:00You know, LL, I've actually become less sure about...You know, LL, I've actually become less sure about the permissibility of the DP in principle. Here I just wanted to warn people away from arguments that end up entailing that no one is ever responsible for anything. <BR/><BR/>In one paradigmatic version of the argument, it is covertly assumed that in every case where the DP would be in principle permissible, we can find--or, actually, imagine-Winston Smithhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08780746334199630779noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5264937.post-20167819151535982302008-07-22T12:23:00.000-04:002008-07-22T12:23:00.000-04:00Now, I won't try to address specific arguments aga...<I>Now, I won't try to address specific arguments against the DP here, though we've discussed them some in the past. But here's one thought to keep in mind: most arguments against the DP seem to turn, in the end, on premises that seem to entail one of two absurd claims, to wit, either: (a) No one is ever responsible for anything he does or (b) We are only responsible for the good things we do, lovable liberalhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15616294696912710046noreply@blogger.com