tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5264937.post116489920876587821..comments2024-03-26T12:23:29.784-04:00Comments on Philosoraptor: Winston Smithhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/08780746334199630779noreply@blogger.comBlogger21125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5264937.post-1165269217765948202006-12-04T16:53:00.000-05:002006-12-04T16:53:00.000-05:00The China connection was no mere moonbattery. I d...The China connection was no mere moonbattery. I don't know if you're being disingenuous, drinking kool-aid, or if your Google is broken.<BR/><BR/>Sigh. <A HREF="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1996_United_States_campaign_finance_controversy" REL="nofollow">How soon they forget.</A><BR/><BR/>"Seventeen people were eventually convicted for fraud or for funneling Asian funds into the United States Tom Van Dykehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07121072404143877596noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5264937.post-1165241859958155322006-12-04T09:17:00.000-05:002006-12-04T09:17:00.000-05:00Yes, we all know the frenzied anti-Clinton crowd's...Yes, we all know the frenzied anti-Clinton crowd's assertions...<BR/><BR/>And he's a rapist, and he's a murderer, and he's a drug-runner...and what about those two kids killed on those railroad tracks in Arkansas? Huh? Huh?<BR/><BR/>Most presidents issue corrupt pardons. It's damn bullshit, but (a) they all do it and (b) it's way far down the list as far as contemporary corruption goes. <BR/>Winston Smithhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08780746334199630779noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5264937.post-1165185195702605522006-12-03T17:33:00.000-05:002006-12-03T17:33:00.000-05:00``I cannot conjure up an ounce of respect for Bill...``I cannot conjure up an ounce of respect for Bill Clinton when it comes to the military,” Webb said in that interview. ``Every time I see him salute a Marine, it infuriates me. I don’t think Bill Clinton cares one iota about what happens in a military unit.”<BR/><BR/>The irony is that Webb wanted such a man to campaign for him, what with a son in the military and all. This Celtic warrior ethos Tom Van Dykehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07121072404143877596noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5264937.post-1165172675610706562006-12-03T14:04:00.000-05:002006-12-03T14:04:00.000-05:00Yeah, and besides, Webb was obviously wrong about ...Yeah, and besides, Webb was obviously wrong about the Clinton admin. It wasn't even particularly corrupt, and certainly not even to be spoken of in the same terms as the Nixon, Reagan, or Bush '43 admin.sWinston Smithhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08780746334199630779noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5264937.post-1165160293367196572006-12-03T10:38:00.000-05:002006-12-03T10:38:00.000-05:00"Still, Webb had the guts to ask Clinton to campai..."Still, Webb had the guts to ask Clinton to campaign for him."<BR/><BR/>"If I were Clinton, I may have exercized my Celtic warrior right to quote Cheney-to-Leahy in response.)" <BR/><BR/>Yeah, imagine that Webb might believe that Clinton would actually put the good of his country ahead of any personal grudge or animus he might have had against Webb. Good to know where you stand, though.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5264937.post-1165088653632261002006-12-02T14:44:00.000-05:002006-12-02T14:44:00.000-05:00On the narrow and specific grounds of this inciden...On the narrow and specific grounds of this incident, I yield. It certainly doesn't rate in the top 1000 of the incivilities we've inflicted on each other in the past few years. As an extension of the previous discussion about the personal and political, and proper places and times, I reiterated my general view.<BR/><BR/>I do think Webb was <I>Born Fighting</I> (ran across a review of it the Tom Van Dykehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07121072404143877596noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5264937.post-1165082692622831772006-12-02T13:04:00.000-05:002006-12-02T13:04:00.000-05:00Webb may turn out to be a pain for Democrats from ...Webb may turn out to be a pain for Democrats from time to time, given his independence and flamboyant streak. But I took a lot of satisfaction from his remarks to Bush. In my reading of this administration, very few people seem to have had the guts to confront Bush. Bush, on the other hand, frequently treats his peers with a patronizing and bullying attitide. So it's refreshing to see someone Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5264937.post-1165076760930342832006-12-02T11:26:00.000-05:002006-12-02T11:26:00.000-05:00Yeah, Tom's gone over into knee-jerk apologist mod...Yeah, Tom's gone over into knee-jerk apologist mode. You're exactly right, LL, about what he'd be saying if the tables were turned.<BR/><BR/>Or it'd be, e.g., "Real men aren't hurt by words...they can take the rough-and-tumble of frank discourse."<BR/><BR/>Or whatever.<BR/><BR/>You're a smart guy, Tom, but you've got your heart chained to a sad and tragically misguided cause.<BR/><BR/>But, LL, IWinston Smithhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08780746334199630779noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5264937.post-1165073731033354962006-12-02T10:35:00.000-05:002006-12-02T10:35:00.000-05:00If Will were on the other side of this story, he'd...If Will were on the other side of this story, he'd be solemnly telling us that a gentleman never insults anyone <B>accidentally</B>. Will would be doing this pompously, as if it were a great unquestionable truth.<BR/><BR/>What Webb was signalling to his constituents is that he's not going to play the ass-kissing Washington game even with Duhbya, that he's the scion of the Scotch-Irish line he Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5264937.post-1165011089539550732006-12-01T17:11:00.000-05:002006-12-01T17:11:00.000-05:00It's almost impossible to discuss underlying princ...It's almost impossible to discuss underlying principles when partisanship is involved. Either there's a line between the political and the personal, or there is not.<BR/><BR/>If not, then the concept of civility no longer has meaning.Tom Van Dykehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07121072404143877596noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5264937.post-1164986022159971042006-12-01T10:13:00.000-05:002006-12-01T10:13:00.000-05:00Tom, goddamn it, I love having you around here and...Tom, goddamn it, I love having you around here and wish we had more conservatives.<BR/><BR/>But you are simply not making a lick of sense here. NOT A LICK.<BR/><BR/>Sometimes you're right. You're probably right more than I admit. But you ain't right here.<BR/><BR/>I'm not going to waste my life swatting this kind of fly. If you really believe this bizarre effluvium you're outgassing here I Winston Smithhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08780746334199630779noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5264937.post-1164956150132818392006-12-01T01:55:00.000-05:002006-12-01T01:55:00.000-05:00Not arrested for dissent, but for being a boor. S...Not arrested for dissent, but for being a boor. Setting the record straight here.<BR/><BR/>I understand if Webb felt Bush was getting too familiar. But when Webb confirmed the exchange to the papers, he made it public, not personal, and political as well:<BR/><BR/>"No offense to the institution of the presidency, and I'm certainly looking forward to working with him and his administration. [ButTom Van Dykehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07121072404143877596noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5264937.post-1164952679889284542006-12-01T00:57:00.000-05:002006-12-01T00:57:00.000-05:00you guys are in charge now, so you get to make the...<I>you guys are in charge now, so you get to make the rules.</I><BR/><BR/>Ah yes. I recall the rules in effect when 'you guys' were in charge.<BR/><BR/>Didn't it go something like "You're all weak-ass terrorist-lovers and un-American and unpatriotic and you hate the troops, and a vote for the Democrat party is a vote for Osama, & etc, & etc, & etc."<BR/><BR/>Come off it, Tom. If a politician Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5264937.post-1164950999503677342006-12-01T00:29:00.000-05:002006-12-01T00:29:00.000-05:00BUSH: How's your boy? WEBB: Fine.That's how you'd ...BUSH: How's your boy? <BR/>WEBB: Fine.<BR/><BR/><BR/>That's how you'd do things under the Old Propriety, but you guys are in charge now, so you get to make the rules. I'm sure the rest of us will catch up, but our hearts aren't in it.Tom Van Dykehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07121072404143877596noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5264937.post-1164943654738519062006-11-30T22:27:00.000-05:002006-11-30T22:27:00.000-05:00"He was saying in effect, 'Mr. President, we're no..."He was saying in effect, 'Mr. President, we're not buddies." <BR/><BR/>Myca, I think that's pretty much right now.Alexander Wolfehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03041808057755360625noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5264937.post-1164941443385941832006-11-30T21:50:00.000-05:002006-11-30T21:50:00.000-05:00Oh, and Re: Truth.The thing is that what Webb said...Oh, and Re: Truth.<BR/><BR/>The thing is that what Webb said was actually indisputably true, in that it wasn't a claim about the exterior world in any meaningful way, it was a claim about his family and his life.<BR/><BR/>"How's your boy?"<BR/>"I'm actually pretty pissed off about how you've put my boy into what I perceive as needless danger, so, aside from the part you have some control over (Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5264937.post-1164940996058658792006-11-30T21:43:00.000-05:002006-11-30T21:43:00.000-05:00Well, sure, but you don't think that the president...Well, sure, but you don't think that the president, the most public of public figures, can have his policies criticized <I>when he asks</I>?<BR/><BR/>I (with the best of intentions) accidentally set fire to your house, trapping your wife and children inside. When I innocently ask, "so, how's the wife and kids," I think you're well within your right to say "Well golly, man, they'd sure be better Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5264937.post-1164932671243826892006-11-30T19:24:00.000-05:002006-11-30T19:24:00.000-05:00Well, let's just call it the New Propriety and be ...Well, let's just call it the New Propriety and be done with it. There is no line between the personal and the political; the appropriate time for politics is anytime, anywhere.<BR/><BR/>I'm wary of assertions of truth. Everybody is convinced of their truth.<BR/><BR/>BUSH: How's your boy? <BR/>WEBB: I'd like to get them out of Iraq. <BR/>BUSH: Well, Jim, I think your idea could be disasterous Tom Van Dykehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07121072404143877596noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5264937.post-1164912455455985692006-11-30T13:47:00.000-05:002006-11-30T13:47:00.000-05:00Jeez.I hold courtesy as a virtue, I really do. How...Jeez.<BR/><BR/>I hold courtesy as a virtue, I really do. However, I hold truth as a greater one.<BR/><BR/>Just as in the case of the fellow who told Cheney that his policies were reprehensible, I see nothing wrong with Webb telling the truth in a polite way. <BR/><BR/>It seems, actually that being non-deferential or bluntly saying things that the president or vice-president disagree with is Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5264937.post-1164909571412721412006-11-30T12:59:00.000-05:002006-11-30T12:59:00.000-05:00I'm not going to respond now because I find myself...I'm not going to respond now because I find myself unable to express myself without cursing.<BR/><BR/>If what you say is right, and Will knew what the real exchange was like, then he (Will) has done something very wrong.Winston Smithhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08780746334199630779noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5264937.post-1164907714001391012006-11-30T12:28:00.000-05:002006-11-30T12:28:00.000-05:00You might already know this, but Will truncates th...You might already know this, but Will truncates the exchange in a way that somewhat distorts the picture. In Will's version, the exchange is:<BR/><BR/>BUSH: How's your boy? <BR/>WEBB: I'd like to get them out of Iraq. <BR/>BUSH: How's your boy?<BR/>WEBB: That's between me and my boy.<BR/><BR/>According to the Washington Post's reporters, however, the exchange was as follows:<BR/><BR/>BUSH: How's Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com