tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5264937.post114511449171577628..comments2024-03-26T12:23:29.784-04:00Comments on Philosoraptor: Winston Smithhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/08780746334199630779noreply@blogger.comBlogger26125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5264937.post-1145366054733380692006-04-18T09:14:00.000-04:002006-04-18T09:14:00.000-04:00Well, I don't think I can agree with that in an un...Well, I don't think I can agree with that in an unqualified form. I think that really really bad instances of race-baiting are worse than really really mild instances of racism, tho.<BR/><BR/>But I'm not sure how much the comparative question matters. I mean I, anyway, as a quasi-Democrat, don't really care that much if the Rupublicans are worse than we are in some way...if the party I'm Winston Smithhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08780746334199630779noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5264937.post-1145331068365656552006-04-17T23:31:00.000-04:002006-04-17T23:31:00.000-04:00I'll settle for that. This is not about scoring p...I'll settle for that. This is not about scoring points. <BR/><BR/>Race-baiting is as corrosive as racism.Tom Van Dykehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07121072404143877596noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5264937.post-1145316838041935882006-04-17T19:33:00.000-04:002006-04-17T19:33:00.000-04:00I don't think I understand that mote-beam quote.Is...I don't think I understand that mote-beam quote.<BR/><BR/>Is the object in one's own eye *really* a beam? Or does is it just a mote seen super close-up? But it affects you as if it were a beam, and much more than the mote in your neighbor's eye, because it blocks much of your field of vision?<BR/><BR/>One way or another or another, I AM interested in the motes in my own eye. Call me selfish...Winston Smithhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08780746334199630779noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5264937.post-1145316325021295122006-04-17T19:25:00.000-04:002006-04-17T19:25:00.000-04:00The GOP agenda.Are there idiots on my side who mis...<A HREF="http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,191885,00.html" REL="nofollow">The GOP agenda</A>.<BR/><BR/>Are there idiots on my side who misuse race? Sure. There are idiots of every sort everywhere. It's not institutional, though. I'm not ever going to vote for what's-her-name who slugged a cop a couple of weeks ago - but the unofficial news organization of the GOP (e.g., Cheney demands the rilkefanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01189347779617969628noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5264937.post-1145307485049829422006-04-17T16:58:00.000-04:002006-04-17T16:58:00.000-04:00Well, if we're going to discuss what we're discuss...Well, if we're going to discuss what we're discussing, then let's discuss it. If everyone who disagrees with you is some sort of -ist, then it's a waste of time.<BR/><BR/>All decent people abhor racist talk, but race-baiting rhetoric is just as corrosive. The Democratic Party tolerates it, and propogates it. (Howard Dean.)<BR/><BR/>I conceded several <I>legitimate</I> reasons why blacks don't Tom Van Dykehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07121072404143877596noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5264937.post-1145296727198535102006-04-17T13:58:00.000-04:002006-04-17T13:58:00.000-04:00Not claiming moral perfection, I just find racist ...Not claiming moral perfection, I just find racist rhetoric abhorrent. Not saying you're racist, but you are quoting a meme which usually implies "The Democrats are only a viable party because they have black voters, so they're not legitimate". Your statement is as true as "The Democrats can only win major elections because of the Jewish vote and Jewish money". I am perfectly happy to have the rilkefanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01189347779617969628noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5264937.post-1145290363947584112006-04-17T12:12:00.000-04:002006-04-17T12:12:00.000-04:00Pointing out the emperor has no clothes is a far c...<I> Pointing out the emperor has no clothes is a far cry from being able to make clothes yourself.</I><BR/><BR/>Anybody with a lick of sense can cover themselves. How big a fool do you have to be, not to know your ass is hanging out in the cold air?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5264937.post-1145250820229538142006-04-17T01:13:00.000-04:002006-04-17T01:13:00.000-04:00I doubt it. It would kill the buzz of your self-r...I doubt it. It would kill the buzz of your self-righteousness. Still, the thought troubles me.<BR/><BR/>Regardless, your <I>et tuoque</I> doesn't change a word of what I wrote, which apparently does not trouble you. Indeed, you are incapable of engaging the possibility, as it would tear down the temple of your moral perfection.Tom Van Dykehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07121072404143877596noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5264937.post-1145233373084675582006-04-16T20:22:00.000-04:002006-04-16T20:22:00.000-04:00"I do try to make allowances that but for the mono..."I do try to make allowances that but for the monolithic black vote, the Democrats would scarcely win another major election. (You could look up the numbers.)"<BR/><BR/>I do try to make allowances that but for the monolithic homophobic and racist and sexist vote, the Republicans would scarcely win another major election. (You could look up the numbers.)rilkefanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01189347779617969628noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5264937.post-1145222559799594792006-04-16T17:22:00.000-04:002006-04-16T17:22:00.000-04:00The irony and the rub is in that during Jim Crow a...<I>The irony and the rub is in that during Jim Crow and before integration, Black America was more self-reliant and cohesive than it is now. On this, both Farrakhan and Sowell agree.</I><BR/><BR/>Well, in the sense that black America was a strongly ghettoized and isolated minority, then yes, they were more self-reliant and cohesive, by default. <BR/><BR/>That has absolutely nothing to do with Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5264937.post-1145169388933889222006-04-16T02:36:00.000-04:002006-04-16T02:36:00.000-04:00Well, while there's a break in the clouds, I'll sq...Well, while there's a break in the clouds, I'll squeak in here once again, WS, working in reverse order:<BR/><BR/>I think "programs," technique, has been tried. Technique is important, but always insufficient. I do believe the problem is one of philosophy, and I have listened to a lot of black folk. If you start with Farrakhan and work clockwise to Sowell, it's quite a small sweep.<BR/><BR/>Tom Van Dykehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07121072404143877596noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5264937.post-1145156117278544382006-04-15T22:55:00.000-04:002006-04-15T22:55:00.000-04:00One last thing here, though:The poor and minoritie...One last thing here, though:<BR/><BR/>The poor and minorities don't really get much assistance. There's no such thing as welfare as most people understand it, and I suspect that affirmative action doesn't really accomplish much. I can't help but think that smarter programs could do more for the problem without the threat of undermining self-reliance.Winston Smithhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08780746334199630779noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5264937.post-1145155457487514142006-04-15T22:44:00.000-04:002006-04-15T22:44:00.000-04:00I wish I could say you were wrong, Tom, but I can'...I wish I could say you were wrong, Tom, but I can't.<BR/><BR/>I can't say you're right, either...but I've come to realize that I don't even come close to understanding these kinds of race issues.<BR/><BR/>It seems that most racists migrated from the Dems to the GOP as a result of Nixon's southern strategy, and there they remain. There's a lot--a WHOLE lot--about the GOP's attitude toward race Winston Smithhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08780746334199630779noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5264937.post-1145153451204019212006-04-15T22:10:00.000-04:002006-04-15T22:10:00.000-04:00And a lot of Dems were/are ideologically anti-Clin...And a lot of Dems were/are ideologically anti-Clinton, the DLC, and anything that resembles centrism.<BR/><BR/>His presidency, his capital, if you will, was squandered not by the reactionaries who impeached him, but in the first 2 years of his presidency, when he still had a majority in both houses.<BR/><BR/>My problem with Clinton was never in what he did, but in what he did not do. It was a Tom Van Dykehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07121072404143877596noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5264937.post-1145141235670874882006-04-15T18:47:00.000-04:002006-04-15T18:47:00.000-04:00Agreed, but lots of Dems seem to be very anti-Clar...Agreed, but lots of Dems seem to be very anti-Clark. <BR/><BR/>Maybe I'm wrong about that, but that's the way it seems to me.Winston Smithhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08780746334199630779noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5264937.post-1145133095947635592006-04-15T16:31:00.000-04:002006-04-15T16:31:00.000-04:00That the Democrats' biggest selling point is being...That the Democrats' biggest selling point is being non-Republicans is not a reflection on them. There is no possible party such that their positive good would outweigh the good of getting Bush/Cheney/Rove/DeLay/Frist/Norquist/Falwell out of power/influence.<BR/><BR/>There are plenty of good things being pushed by the Ds - go read Clark's website, or look into Kerry's health plan, or read the rilkefanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01189347779617969628noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5264937.post-1145131646881031562006-04-15T16:07:00.000-04:002006-04-15T16:07:00.000-04:00Yeah, it stinks when both party's biggest selling ...Yeah, it stinks when both party's biggest selling point is that it isn't the other one...<BR/><BR/>Though a few things to note:<BR/><BR/>1. During the Clinton years the right was even crazier than the left is now, and over far, far less.<BR/><BR/>relatedly:<BR/><BR/>2. Even when we had a credible statesman (Clinton), the right went batshit crazy against him.<BR/><BR/>3. Both Gore and Kerry, Winston Smithhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08780746334199630779noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5264937.post-1145129642308419662006-04-15T15:34:00.000-04:002006-04-15T15:34:00.000-04:00Pointing out the emperor has no clothes is a far c...Pointing out the emperor has no clothes is a far cry from being able to make clothes yourself. And that's the rub about the question of who should lead.<BR/><BR/>Perhaps the left is right, but there's no way for a reasonable person to detect that in between all the invective. Until they can get control of themselves, no way they get near the controls of this nation. I commend your call for Tom Van Dykehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07121072404143877596noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5264937.post-1145127528063314792006-04-15T14:58:00.000-04:002006-04-15T14:58:00.000-04:00Rilkefan,MSOC?Well, I DO ignore the howlers...in t...Rilkefan,<BR/><BR/>MSOC?<BR/><BR/>Well, I DO ignore the howlers...in the sense that I neither read 'em regularly nor take them very seriously... But that doesn't mean that there's something wrong with pointing out that they're full of shit, right?<BR/><BR/>Only reason I bring this up is that it's in the WaPo.<BR/><BR/>Oh, and b/c it's ultimately going to hurt anti-Bush efforts.<BR/><BR/>I'm sureWinston Smithhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08780746334199630779noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5264937.post-1145122882529271272006-04-15T13:41:00.000-04:002006-04-15T13:41:00.000-04:00Atrios is reality-based, even if he makes dumb mis...Atrios is reality-based, even if he makes dumb mistakes on occasion. MSOC gets a lot of criticism on Daily Kos. Pandagon was good, once upon a time.<BR/><BR/>Anyway, I think part of your "counterproductive" claim is too simple. There are people who will be inspired to oppose Bush by the MSOCs, and people who are annoyed at spittle-flecked liberals. Why you aren't reading Hilzoy or Drum or rilkefanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01189347779617969628noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5264937.post-1145122607226629202006-04-15T13:36:00.000-04:002006-04-15T13:36:00.000-04:00I haven't read pandagon in ages, I got tired of on...I haven't read pandagon in ages, I got tired of one issue all the time. It lost its entertainment value. Also, it didn't make me think about new stuff too much.<BR/><BR/>I do like wonkish places that offer up issues and ideas that I simply would not have looked at otherwise. Again, this is entertaining, but informative, or at least potentially informative. I like learning new stuff, Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5264937.post-1145121954022519492006-04-15T13:25:00.000-04:002006-04-15T13:25:00.000-04:00I think you're especially right about the bit abou...I think you're especially right about the bit about entertainment.<BR/><BR/>Many of the really big blogs (LGF, Pandagon, etc.) seem to be primarily in the business of fanning the flames in the hearts of the true believers. That's how you get readers, hits, and affirmation, after all.<BR/><BR/>Try to stake out a non-standard position, and, take it from me, you'll take heat. Which is fine with meWinston Smithhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08780746334199630779noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5264937.post-1145121553382034542006-04-15T13:19:00.000-04:002006-04-15T13:19:00.000-04:00I think you've hit a nugget here, WS. The desire ...I think you've hit a nugget here, WS. The desire for catharsis, or at least for attention and a desire for 15 minutes of fame, or at least to feel important, spans all politics. It is hilarious at times, but it is also very depressing.<BR/><BR/>Man, the affirmation of your points is, as you said, funny and sad.<BR/><BR/>We all love entertainment and the nice little warm glow of moral outrage. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5264937.post-1145118567018301112006-04-15T12:29:00.000-04:002006-04-15T12:29:00.000-04:00Oh, also:I love it when our local irrational Anony...Oh, also:<BR/><BR/>I love it when our local irrational Anonymi attribute positions to me that I've explicitly disavowed...<BR/><BR/>Man, where do these guys come from?Winston Smithhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08780746334199630779noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5264937.post-1145118455240913672006-04-15T12:27:00.000-04:002006-04-15T12:27:00.000-04:00heh heh. Man, thanks for confirming my position.W...heh heh. Man, thanks for confirming my position.<BR/><BR/>Wait a minute...depressing, actually...<BR/><BR/>Ugh.Winston Smithhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08780746334199630779noreply@blogger.com