tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5264937.post114096827955829030..comments2024-03-26T12:23:29.784-04:00Comments on Philosoraptor: Winston Smithhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/08780746334199630779noreply@blogger.comBlogger35125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5264937.post-1141603701288424022006-03-05T19:08:00.000-05:002006-03-05T19:08:00.000-05:00Considering all the verbal twister you played, it'...Considering all the verbal twister you played, it's hard to figure out exactly what you said, but the gist of it seemed to be that the Bin Laden version of Islam is the *true* version of it, or some such thing. <BR/><BR/>Since I'm not Muslim, I don't really have a philosophical ox to gore in this case, but I hardly think that finding some truly offensive quotes by some fundamentalist preachers Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5264937.post-1141588214039526952006-03-05T14:50:00.000-05:002006-03-05T14:50:00.000-05:00You are doing a victory dance over something I did...You are doing a victory dance over something I did not say, and unintentionally proved what I actually did say.Tom Van Dykehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07121072404143877596noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5264937.post-1141586718767982982006-03-05T14:25:00.000-05:002006-03-05T14:25:00.000-05:00The only absurdity that has been offered on this t...The only absurdity that has been offered on this thread so far is the undeniable conclusion, based on your statements, that in order to be a good Muslim, one must adhere to the gospel as pronounced by Bin Laden, something which has been greeted with responses ranging from laughter to disgust by Muslims whom I know.<BR/><BR/>They consider it absurd that anyone would characterize all Muslims based Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5264937.post-1141502624766260942006-03-04T15:03:00.000-05:002006-03-04T15:03:00.000-05:00The link I provided was supposed to be the beginni...The link I provided was supposed to be the beginning of your inquiry, not the end of it. There is far more to the question than can be covered in the comments section of a blog. Instead, you troll for the goods on Falwell.<BR/><BR/>Further, your comments indicate that you did not read the link or if you did, you did not comprehend it. You seem determined to remain as ignorant of the Qur'an as Tom Van Dykehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07121072404143877596noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5264937.post-1141486713155020332006-03-04T10:38:00.000-05:002006-03-04T10:38:00.000-05:00"It would be better if you did, since by your own ..."It would be better if you did, since by your own account you know little or nothing about Islam. Then you could answer your own questions, and answer them for me too. I'm afraid I'm weary of having you half-read a link I provide and then reject it out of hand without substantive comment."<BR/><BR/>That's cool. Just make a claim, provide some link that's nowhere near an authoritative source on Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5264937.post-1141449700556816412006-03-04T00:21:00.000-05:002006-03-04T00:21:00.000-05:00It would be better if you did, since by your own a...It would be better if you did, since by your own account you know little or nothing about Islam. Then you could answer your own questions, and answer them for me too. I'm afraid I'm weary of having you half-read a link I provide and then reject it out of hand without substantive comment.<BR/><BR/>Please let me know what you find out, LC, and we can reverse roles. You can assume the burden of Tom Van Dykehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07121072404143877596noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5264937.post-1141441607589072972006-03-03T22:06:00.000-05:002006-03-03T22:06:00.000-05:00"Well, you're on the right track---Islam hasn't ha..."Well, you're on the right track---Islam hasn't had a reformation. So bin Ladenism, with a few bendings of the law, is Islam."<BR/><BR/>So who's going to tell the Pope that he's not really a *Christian*? You know, the Catholic Church didn't really buy into that whole 'Reformation' thing.<BR/><BR/>It's not the Reformation, but the Age of Reason and The Enlightenment that were the crucial events.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5264937.post-1141429255156699982006-03-03T18:40:00.000-05:002006-03-03T18:40:00.000-05:00Well, you're on the right track---Islam hasn't had...Well, you're on the right track---Islam hasn't had a reformation. So bin Ladenism, with a few bendings of the law, is Islam. Stealing a helicopter and ramming into the Pentagon would be just fine, especially if you bailed out first.<BR/><BR/>As for the Jews, well, <A HREF="http://memri.org/bin/articles.cgi?Page=archives&Area=sr&ID=SR01102" REL="nofollow">they're apes and pigs.</A> Literally.<Tom Van Dykehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07121072404143877596noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5264937.post-1141403225185594592006-03-03T11:27:00.000-05:002006-03-03T11:27:00.000-05:00I would also point out that there are at least fou...I would also point out that there are at least four relevant points:<BR/><BR/>1. What does it say in the text?<BR/><BR/>2. Must one strictly adhere to the exact literal interpretation of that text to be considered an adherent of that faith?<BR/><BR/>3. If no to #2, what degree of deviance from it makes one different in 'kind', rather than 'degree' from a strict literalist? In other words, no Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5264937.post-1141402320565705882006-03-03T11:12:00.000-05:002006-03-03T11:12:00.000-05:00I read the link, but since I'm so challenged, perh...I read the link, but since I'm so challenged, perhaps you can excerpt some piece of your link to brilliant analysis that illustrates your point, since I don't see anything of substance validating it there. <BR/><BR/>And if you pretended that the statements I provided came from some site other than CAIR, since we know a priori that nothing posted there could be accurate, maybe you would consider Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5264937.post-1141368728735749742006-03-03T01:52:00.000-05:002006-03-03T01:52:00.000-05:00LC, I don't perceive any acknowledgement that you ...LC, I don't perceive any acknowledgement that you actually read the links I so often painstakingly provide, like I already did in this thread.<BR/> <BR/>Is it that you don't know to click on them, since I imbed them in the text and don't write them as URLs? That would explain a lot, and I mean that straight-up.<BR/><BR/>Otherwise, I'm dumbfounded.Tom Van Dykehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07121072404143877596noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5264937.post-1141342088783275852006-03-02T18:28:00.000-05:002006-03-02T18:28:00.000-05:00Fine. Except the original operative theory, propo...Fine. Except the original operative theory, proposed by you, was:<BR/><BR/>"What if true Islam is really the bin Laden version, which is what the most-circulated cartoon might very well say?" <BR/><BR/>I'm saying I don't know one way or the other, but at least I offered SOME evidence for one possible answer. What you've offered, plus $2.00, can get you a ride on the subway.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5264937.post-1141282217112506242006-03-02T01:50:00.000-05:002006-03-02T01:50:00.000-05:00I'm willing to consider that you're correct about ...<I>I'm willing to consider that you're correct about that, but so far you've presented no evidence of such. I confessed that I'm not much of a Muslim scholar, so I realize I'm pretty much appealing to authority on this one, but that's a pretty good littany of Muslim scholars saying that OBL is distorting Islam.</I><BR/><BR/>Yes, LC, it's certainly prudent not to come to any conclusions based on Tom Van Dykehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07121072404143877596noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5264937.post-1141263652427850482006-03-01T20:40:00.000-05:002006-03-01T20:40:00.000-05:00I think I'm with tvd here for once - anyway, I see...I think I'm with <B>tvd</B> here for once - anyway, I see the cartoons as being in the cause of free-speech and not as antiIslamic. Well, I don't so much agree that Condi Rice should be considered holy.rilkefanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01189347779617969628noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5264937.post-1141261117598748952006-03-01T19:58:00.000-05:002006-03-01T19:58:00.000-05:00"Notice that (perhaps there's an exception or two)..."Notice that (perhaps there's an exception or two) nobody condemns bin Laden. They condemn the "deaths," they say that bin Laden misinterprets Islam. They condemn the act (for only very narrow reasons), but not the perpetrator.<BR/><BR/>There is a very careful semantic game going on, but without an idea of its foundation, the Qur'an, the Hadith tradition, and the prevelant Muslim thought that is Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5264937.post-1141255381897473022006-03-01T18:23:00.000-05:002006-03-01T18:23:00.000-05:00OK, LC, out of intellectual honesty, I went and re...OK, LC, out of intellectual honesty, I went and read them.<BR/><BR/>It takes awhile to learn how to read these guys, and take notice of what they <I>don't</I> say.<BR/><BR/>Notice that (perhaps there's an exception or two) nobody condemns bin Laden. They condemn the "deaths," they say that bin Laden misinterprets Islam. They condemn the act (for only very narrow reasons), but not the Tom Van Dykehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07121072404143877596noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5264937.post-1141248573836765342006-03-01T16:29:00.000-05:002006-03-01T16:29:00.000-05:00I didn't read any of them. I'm quite familiar wit...I didn't read any of them. I'm quite familiar with CAIR and Ibrahim Hooper.<BR/><BR/>Counterjihad ain't my thing, so I pass on getting into it. However, I do hope you'll have the time to read all you can on the issue.<BR/><BR/>There's a bit of the fever swamp over at the <A HREF="http://ibloga.blogspot.com/" REL="nofollow">Infidel Blog Alliance, </A> but not much. Most of their sources are in Tom Van Dykehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07121072404143877596noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5264937.post-1141225225486813922006-03-01T10:00:00.000-05:002006-03-01T10:00:00.000-05:00TomDid you read ALL of the postings at that site?Tom<BR/><BR/>Did you read ALL of the postings at that site?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5264937.post-1141199288898588492006-03-01T02:48:00.000-05:002006-03-01T02:48:00.000-05:00A discerning inquiry, or even a poke below the sur...A discerning inquiry, or even a poke below the surface of the Qur'an and CAIR itself prohibits taking such comforting fictions at face value.Tom Van Dykehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07121072404143877596noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5264937.post-1141191331610083592006-03-01T00:35:00.000-05:002006-03-01T00:35:00.000-05:00Well, there's certainly no shortage of Muslim scho...Well, there's certainly no shortage of Muslim scholars who would disagree with OBL:<BR/><BR/>http://www.cair-net.org/html/911statements.htmlAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5264937.post-1141162777387571902006-02-28T16:39:00.000-05:002006-02-28T16:39:00.000-05:00The more unpleasant the truth, the more prudence i...The more unpleasant the truth, the more prudence is needed in dispensing it.Tom Van Dykehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07121072404143877596noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5264937.post-1141098863615103322006-02-27T22:54:00.000-05:002006-02-27T22:54:00.000-05:00"I mean that bin Laden might not be distorting wha..."I mean that bin Laden might not be distorting what's in there. Which means the cartoons are not just provocation, but literal truth.<BR/><BR/>Then where does freedom of speech leave us?"<BR/><BR/>I don't know. Personally, I think it pretty much leaves us where we are right now - you're free to either tell the truth of lie.<BR/><BR/>But I'm sure that's not what you really meant, so maybe you canAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5264937.post-1141086278586544082006-02-27T19:24:00.000-05:002006-02-27T19:24:00.000-05:00Shorter Stanley Fish: Liberals are not Religious F...Shorter Stanley Fish: Liberals are not Religious Fundamentalists.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5264937.post-1141084714055127112006-02-27T18:58:00.000-05:002006-02-27T18:58:00.000-05:00I mean that bin Laden might not be distorting what...I mean that bin Laden might not be distorting what's in there. Which means the cartoons are not just provocation, but literal truth.<BR/><BR/>Then where does freedom of speech leave us?Tom Van Dykehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07121072404143877596noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5264937.post-1141075099664924692006-02-27T16:18:00.000-05:002006-02-27T16:18:00.000-05:00Tom,Do you mean in terms of dissimilar distortion ...Tom,<BR/><BR/>Do you mean in terms of dissimilar distortion of what's in sacred texts or dissimilar following/adherents?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com