tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5264937.post7873245499294011163..comments2024-03-26T12:23:29.784-04:00Comments on Philosoraptor: Winston Smithhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/08780746334199630779noreply@blogger.comBlogger17125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5264937.post-52328727325739791142007-07-14T00:36:00.000-04:002007-07-14T00:36:00.000-04:00Well, I had the misfortune to go to a Catholic hig...Well, I had the misfortune to go to a Catholic high school, so I had both extremes.<BR/><BR/>The English teacher for 3 of my four years of hight school had a PhD and now teaches at the university, but was one of the worst teachers I ever had. She was absolutely terrible--and I wasn't the only one who complained about her. She knew her material, but was both uninspiring and boring and I dreaded Random Michelle Khttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13817444379694818074noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5264937.post-81815750607037754072007-07-13T18:04:00.000-04:002007-07-13T18:04:00.000-04:00Ya know, I was just thinking that I had the *oppos...Ya know, I was just thinking that I had the *opposite* problem--I had lots of high school teachers that obviously (a) didn't know anything about the material they were teaching and/or (b) were not smart, but I don't remember a single one who (a) was smart and (b) knew what they were talking about but (c) couldn't teach. <BR/><BR/>That may just be faulty or selective memory, but I don't think so.Winston Smithhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08780746334199630779noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5264937.post-48292582174555819262007-07-13T11:59:00.000-04:002007-07-13T11:59:00.000-04:00I don't disagree that there are problems with the ...I don't disagree that there are problems with the education degree. <BR/><BR/>But one thing it gives prospective teachers--at least here anyway--is time in the classroom. Students here are required to have a certain number of volunteer hours in a classroom of their desired age range. They have to spend time observing different teachers in different schools, and they have to student teach in at Random Michelle Khttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13817444379694818074noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5264937.post-83819507728613928552007-07-13T09:39:00.000-04:002007-07-13T09:39:00.000-04:00I don't think that I committed to many of the thin...I don't think that I committed to many of the things Michelle was alleging that I said..<BR/><BR/>I didn't say current college graduates are all able to, and always do, teach exquisitely.<BR/><BR/>I said that you shouldn't be a college graduate if you can't (as in, are not able without a great deal of guidance) explain a point in a coherent manner.<BR/><BR/>I think that that is something that The Mystichttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00813641115915460692noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5264937.post-25196314378450594522007-07-13T06:29:00.000-04:002007-07-13T06:29:00.000-04:00Michelle,You're clearly right that not every colle...Michelle,<BR/><BR/>You're clearly right that not every college graduate, nor ever intelligent person, nor every person who understands a subject, can explain it clearly to non-experts.<BR/><BR/>In general I find myself in agreement with the Mystic, but not with that last salvo.<BR/><BR/>To cut to the chase: I agree with Michelle that teaching is hard and that you can't necessarily do it just Winston Smithhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08780746334199630779noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5264937.post-39814958864874847062007-07-12T22:22:00.000-04:002007-07-12T22:22:00.000-04:00"You can't possibly believe that even as you say t...<I>"You can't possibly believe that even as you say that."</I><BR/><BR/>Of course I believe it. Why shouldn't I?<BR/><BR/><I>"You're commenting on a weblog. You've seen--just as I have--posts and comments that are both incoherent and nonsensical. I don't think you'll get anyone to agree that these are all written by those who don't have a college education--or even people who don't deserve the The Mystichttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00813641115915460692noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5264937.post-27624548245866445102007-07-12T22:10:00.000-04:002007-07-12T22:10:00.000-04:00I have never met an intelligent person who couldn'...<I>I have never met an intelligent person who couldn't explain to me a point in a coherent, rational way. </I><BR/><BR/>I've met lots--some of who have been teaching assistants, some of whom have been professors, some of whom have been technical support. <BR/><BR/>There are a disturbing number of people who are incapable of explaining concepts in a way that makes sense to the average person.<BR/Random Michelle Khttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13817444379694818074noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5264937.post-1399657372623232882007-07-12T21:32:00.000-04:002007-07-12T21:32:00.000-04:00I have to say, Michelle, I think a lot of what you...I have to say, Michelle, I think a lot of what you said is what's harped on by education majors, but it's really a lot of nonsense.<BR/><BR/>1) "You can have all the knowledge in the world, but if you can't make others understand, then you are wasting your time and your student's."<BR/><BR/>I have never met an intelligent person who couldn't explain to me a point in a coherent, rational way. <The Mystichttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00813641115915460692noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5264937.post-657275393950757952007-07-12T12:59:00.000-04:002007-07-12T12:59:00.000-04:00I have to disagree with your contention that an ed...I have to disagree with your contention that an education degree is useless. I agree that a lot of worthless information is taught, but some skills needed in a classroom are not something you learn by having a specialized degree.<BR/><BR/>First off, the ability to teach, as Anonymous mentioned earlier. You can have all the knowledge in the world, but if you can't make others understand, then you Random Michelle Khttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13817444379694818074noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5264937.post-67402797113689190332007-07-12T08:58:00.000-04:002007-07-12T08:58:00.000-04:00I'm not saying that there shouldn't be some teachi...I'm not saying that there shouldn't be some teaching courses--heck, I always thought that I should have had some kind of training before I was thrust into the classroom. But an entire *major* on the "subject" of teaching is overkill to say the least. Except that it's really underkill, since nobody seems to learn anything. And this is particularly pernicious given the opportunity costs--ed majors Winston Smithhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08780746334199630779noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5264937.post-29134913732509021252007-07-11T23:52:00.000-04:002007-07-11T23:52:00.000-04:00I think all the comments above are valid, but I th...I think all the comments above are valid, but I think Anonymous's is really apt (the one above as of this writing). Teaching is a skill that some have, and that others learn. Likewise, in other disciplines, the knowledge doesn't matter if the presentation isn't good.<BR/><BR/>Teaching awards go to those who can communicate hard stuff in a way that people can understand. The problem, as duly Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5264937.post-18632991303982255152007-07-11T17:36:00.000-04:002007-07-11T17:36:00.000-04:00No, students do not need simply for their teachers...No, students do not need simply for their teachers to understand the subject, but how to teach it. These are - and pardon me for the obvious point - different skills.<BR/><BR/>How, for example, does one go about explaining the concept of a variable to a class full of sixth graders so that they will pick it up easily? Hell, I don't know, and neither do you. I don't know in the same way I don't Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5264937.post-32858940893199589872007-07-11T16:28:00.000-04:002007-07-11T16:28:00.000-04:00Matthew,Ed majors aren't the WORST in my experienc...Matthew,<BR/><BR/>Ed majors aren't the WORST in my experience...that title probably goes to business majors. But we're splitting hairs by this point...Winston Smithhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08780746334199630779noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5264937.post-82220451206752434612007-07-11T16:27:00.000-04:002007-07-11T16:27:00.000-04:00Well, A, it's not exactly a hole in my argument if...Well, A, it's not exactly a hole in my argument if I say "except for primary education"... That is, since I noted that some kind of ed major may be necessary for little kids, little kids hardly constitute a problem for my position.<BR/><BR/>If you're teaching kids so small that you don't really have to have any specialized disciplinary knowledge in order to teach them, then by all means have someWinston Smithhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08780746334199630779noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5264937.post-17530165194945723112007-07-11T15:32:00.000-04:002007-07-11T15:32:00.000-04:00Merit-based pay might be a good idea, but eliminat...Merit-based pay might be a good idea, but eliminating the education major is a GREAT idea. The dumbest, most vapid kids at my college were almost all education majors. Most unnerving about them was the utter hostility to actual LEARNING that they displayed when forced to take the core cirruclum liberal arts classes. I was always stunned that people like this were going to be in charge of the matthew christmanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05330195818856343750noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5264937.post-912038607771885782007-07-11T15:04:00.000-04:002007-07-11T15:04:00.000-04:00You are right that much Ed school is a depressing ...You are right that much Ed school is a depressing joke. (I had a friend who was getting his MA in Ed. One day I dropped by his house and noticed a stack of two page papers he had written for one of his classes, entitled "Who will we Teach?", "What will we Teach?", and "How will we Teach?". "What next, 'Where will we Teach?'" Yes, that was the next topic.) However, your admission that "the youngerAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5264937.post-3595089090462047832007-07-11T10:24:00.000-04:002007-07-11T10:24:00.000-04:00In Virginia, there are actually "alternative route...In Virginia, there are actually "alternative routes" to teaching licensure. I looked into doing that, myself, because I wanted to be a teacher. Unfortunately, these alternative routes, require you to, as you said, major in what you want to teach. Unfortunately, being a Philosophy and Religion double major, there is no place for me in the public school system (very sadly enough - one of its The Mystichttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00813641115915460692noreply@blogger.com